I'm just making this thread because i see a lot of people referring to the MRT5 as a "cart" or "kart". I'm wondering if there is any international terminology confusion going on here because as i'm English (not American) we have very exact meaning for the word "kart" (and that doesn't include the MRT5). And i think the word "cart" doesn't really mean anything in England.

So how it is in England, a "kart" has a very special meaning and it's a very small car (100cc to 250cc two-stroke twin-cylinder engine is maximum... up to about 60-70 bhp and up to 6 or 7 gears i think) with no suspension at all and a solid rear axle with no differential, so that leads to some very different handling characteristics, lifting inside rear wheel and so on. Well i won't go on about that here but i've written some more about that in this post :

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/sho...5&postcount=130

But the MRT5 has a differential and rear suspension, so in England that means it's nothing to do with a kart and we would definitely call it a "car".

But i know that in America they have this thing that's like a Formula 1 car and that's called a "cart" so... i was wondering if some people just use the word "cart" to mean a single-seater (or open-wheeled) racing car?

CART , as you can read is all in capital. is the short form of Championship Auto Racing Teams.

why people say MRT5 is a cart,but not kart?? for the same reason they spell extreme as xtreme~

In the US at least "CART" does refer to open wheel, open cockpit racers not dissimular to F1, Indy, Formula Ford and clasics like the vehicles in Gran Prix Legends.

The MRT5 would be concidered a low level Formula car over here. But maybe we should all start calling it what is really is a Formula SAE, or FSAE

Karts are the learning grounds for CART, Formula, and Indy. I would put the FSAE at about same level as a Formula Ford.

Ok let's describe my understanding of the terms in pictures.

1. CART (Championship Auto Racing Teams)
2. Kart
3. Go-Kart
4. Cart
5. Car

So much talk about karts.....Scawen....any plans to actually implement a full kart model in any future releases? This CAR does feel alot closer to a racing kart than any of the other cars. Its very twitchy and very responsive, not to mention it being so low, giving an amazing sense of speed. I was amazed at how fast this car is in the game. I was thinking if a actually racing kart was to be implemented it would be great for racing and have a great 'feel'. It would also be very fast, near the MRT5 on normal tracks and faster on kart type tracks.( Im talking about a normal kart used in the US and europe, 125cc 6speed around 375LBS. with about 45hp, while there are 250cc 'superkarts' used that have 100hp and weigh only 50lbs more, they are not as widely used.) Please put a kart model in a future patch or release, Im positive it would be a big hit!

385lbs, but who is counting For most 125cc shifters the power is closer to 40hp than 45hp (note I said most, a good ICC or moto engine will make 45hp no problem).

A proper racing kart would be a blast in LFS, but it would really require the addition of some kart specific tracks. This would not be a problem for S2 or S3, but as a patch for S1 it is a bit too involved. In the mean time the MRT5 is quite fun to drive, my only complaint lies with the engine. Assuming this engine is based on a 600cc sport bike engine it is way off. You could pull the turbo off of it, let it rev to 15,500 RPM like the bike, and it would make about 90hp at the rear wheels. Put a turbo on it, drop the revs to about 13,000 RPM and bump the power to about 150hp. It is a fun car as it sits though, my complaint is based more on me assuming this car is a FSAE type of car (and they typically used a 600cc sport bike engine).

Jason

dictionary.com defines "cart" as: A light motorized vehicle
personally I think of the GTi as a cart - something I put my shopping in

Kart38, look in this thread to see the MRT team leader explain some of the decisions behind the engine

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/sho...808#post1413808

any chance we will see karts in the game in the near future?

Would be cool. I think the devs have already tested things like that, remember this kart track on the autocross arena.

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Originally Posted by GP4Flo
Would be cool. I think the devs have already tested things like that, remember this kart track on the autocross arena.

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We've already seen the Porsche and an F3000 car.

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Originally Posted by Kart38

A proper racing kart would be a blast in LFS, but it would really require the addition of some kart specific tracks.
Jason

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Originally Posted by GP4Flo
We've already seen the Porsche and an F3000 car.

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Originally Posted by Kart38
385lbs, but who is counting For most 125cc shifters the power is closer to 40hp than 45hp (note I said most, a good ICC or moto engine will make 45hp no problem).

A proper racing kart would be a blast in LFS, but it would really require the addition of some kart specific tracks. This would not be a problem for S2 or S3, but as a patch for S1 it is a bit too involved. In the mean time the MRT5 is quite fun to drive, my only complaint lies with the engine. Assuming this engine is based on a 600cc sport bike engine it is way off. You could pull the turbo off of it, let it rev to 15,500 RPM like the bike, and it would make about 90hp at the rear wheels. Put a turbo on it, drop the revs to about 13,000 RPM and bump the power to about 150hp. It is a fun car as it sits though, my complaint is based more on me assuming this car is a FSAE type of car (and they typically used a 600cc sport bike engine).

Jason

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The MRT5 is not a Kart. Karts do not have suspensions.

Formula SAE is a program in North American universities to encourage auto engineering training. The series has very restrictive rules to help promote students to think within confined regulations, as they would for street auto design. The Formula has full suspension with springs, dampers and roll bars.
The MRT5 is from McGill university engineering.

Here are the specs for the McMaster University car:

Open wheel, single seat racecar
Honda CBR600 engine
86 HP, 12500 MAX RPM
Rolled aluminum body
0-60: 4 seconds

The sound of this car is awesome. These cars are eligible for formula student in Europe. The test track for McMaster is the faculty parking lot on sundays.
Here's pics of the 2002 car MRC:

You can learn more Here.

Hello Everybody...

I like to hear people talking about FSAE car, mainly ours. Adding to previous post, I would say FSAE is not only North American, but now worldwide, since there are also competitions in England (Formula Student) and Australia (Formula SAE). There are every year 140 universities registering for the competition in USA from all over the world.

Hope you all enjoy our last year car, we maybe be back with a new version of it (MRT6) next summer. Some major dynamic changes are currently evaluated with the help of LFS for our MRT6.

You can visit our webpage for more details at www.fsae.mcgill.ca, if you are interested into helping us out, you may adopt a cc for 5$ and feel a little involved in that project. You can contact us at

David Lemire
Team Leader
McGill Racing Team

By the way, if you are wondering, MRT5 stands for McGill Racing Team - Car #5, and that is why I said we are working now on making the MRT6 to compete next summer in Detroit.

In the rules we have to design a new car every year, really hard for most Qu?bec (Canada) University, since school is public and really cheap, not much money is putted into those non-research related projects.

David

Hmmm,

Seeing as this is *sim* afterall, lets go with the actual FSAE naming so we can be accurate. Who knows, maybe another team may like to add their FSAE car to the mix and we could have a whole class.

The GPL guys ways refer to TLA's (three letter ....) when talking about their cars...

Scawen, this opens up a few doors for you - increased exposure of LFS at this level, and also potential revenue streams from incorporating the geometry and specs of other FSAE teams for them to use for testing - you also stipulate their car is available for general release

Here's more tech specs, from the University of Toronto website:

http://www.fsae.utoronto.ca/index.html


:

TECH DATA

ENGINE
Type aluminum block and heads, naturally-aspirated inline-4, dry-sump lubrication
Valvetrain DOHC 4-valves/cyl
Displacement 37 ci/599 cc
Bore x Stroke 67 x 42.5 mm
Compression Ratio 13.6:1
Horsepower (rear wheel) 74 bhp @ 12500 rpm
Bhp/Liter 125 bhp/L
Redline 15,000 rpm
Fuel Injection multi-port direct-EFI, SDS engine-management system
Fuel unleaded, 94-octane gasoline
CHASSIS & BODY
Layout mid-engine, rear-drive
Body aluminum/fiberglass
Frame Carbon fiber/Chromoly hybrid monocoque
Brakes
Fr. FSAE cross-drilled steel discs, CNC calipers
Rear FSAE cross-drilled steel disc, CNC calipers
Wheels Monocoque custom alloy, 7.0 x 13
Tires Hoosier steel-belted bias-ply, 178/30-13
Steering rack & pinion, variable ackermann
Overall ratio 2.45 : 1
Turns, lock to lock 0.5
Turning circle smaller than 2001
SUSPENSION
Front upper and lower A-arms, pullrod-actuated coil-over shocks, anti-roll bar
Back upper and lower A-arms, toe link, pushrod-actuated coil-over shocks, anti-roll bar
DIMENSIONS
Curb weight 449 lb
Weight dist (w/o driver), f/r, % 40/60
Track, f/r variable
Ground clearance 3.0 (without driver)
DRIVETRAIN
Transmission 6-speed sequential
Shifter FSAE solid-linkage clutchless shifter
Differential Torsen limited-slip, FSAE aluminum housing
Final drive ratio 16.5 : 1
PERFORMANCE
0-60 mph 2.89 sec
1/4 mile 11.5 sec @ 120 mph
Lateral accel(50-ft skidpad) 1.5 g
Slalom 65.1 mph
Top speed 124 mph (redline limited)
INSTRUMENTATION
15,000-rpm tach, fuel level, coolant temp, oil pressure

If we are going to get anal about this the Oxford Encylcopedic Dictionary defines kart as -

kart n a miniture wheeled vehicle usually consisting of a
tubular frame with a small rear-mounted engine and a seat for the driver.
It is used for a motor-racing sport (karting), and is an American invention
dating back from 1956. The first vehicles incorported 750cc engines that
had been intended to power rotary lawnmowers whose manufacture was
abandoned when the mowers proved unreliable. (commercial alteration of
cart)

The definition of cart is very different, but I cant be bothered to type it.....

Whatever the MRT is, I love it already

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Originally Posted by mantis9
The definition of cart is very different, but I cant be bothered to type it.....

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Originally Posted by Scirocco
From the Compact Oxford English Dictionary online:

kart
? a small unsprung motor-racing vehicle with a tubular frame and a rear-mounted engine.

cart
? 1 an open horse-drawn vehicle with two or four wheels, used for carrying loads or passengers. 2 a shallow open container on wheels, pulled or pushed by hand.

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Originally Posted by kartracer 7k
So much talk about karts.....Scawen....any plans to actually implement a full kart model in any future releases? ... Please put a kart model in a future patch or release, Im positive it would be a big hit!

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:O

kinda cool watching this great sim grow before my very eyes and each new patch fills me with anticipation ..

long live LFS!

scawen, eric , victor thank you!!