| Sweden 2 - The Netherlands |
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25-03-2003, 23:05 |
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Brian Balgobind
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Location: Utrecht
Age: 24
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results:
ATCH : SWE:18 HOL:31
(Track: Rouen Tue Mar 25 20:35:40 2003)
Detail report :
Lars Mossberg Lotus SWE 7
Frits Hermes Brabham HOL 6
Dion Vergers Ferrari HOL 6
Magnus S?derquist Ferrari SWE 5
Bert Knops Cooper HOL 5
Marcel List v.d. Eagle HOL 5
Christian Westerlund Brabham SWE 3
Toon Lotus HOL 4
Brian Balgobind Honda HOL 4
Juan-Pablo Johansson BRM SWE 1
Karl Arlt Honda SWE 1
Hector Babylon Eagle SWE 1
Michiel Pompert BRM HOL 1
Lala Smaze Cooper SWE 0
MATCH : HOL:25 SWE:24
(Track: Nurburg Tue Mar 25 22:30:00 2003)
Detail report :
Dion Vergers Ferrari HOL 7
Michiel Pompert BRM HOL 7
Robin Verdegaal Lotus HOL 7
Christian Westerlund Honda SWE 4
Juan-Pablo Johansson BRM SWE 4
Lala Smaze Cooper SWE 4
Hector Babylon Eagle SWE 4
Lars Mossberg Lotus SWE 4
Frits Hermes Brabham HOL 2
Marcel List v.d. Eagle HOL 2
Torbjorn Stahl Brabham SWE 2
Magnus S?derquist Ferrari SWE 2
Brian Balgobind Honda HOL 0
Bert Knops Cooper HOL 0
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Racing Doc
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25-03-2003, 23:10 |
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Brian Balgobind
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Joined: Nov 2001
Location: Utrecht
Age: 24
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the results of rouen  Attachment: swe2hol_complete.txt (20242 bytes, 31 views)
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Racing Doc
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25-03-2003, 23:10 |
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Brian Balgobind
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Joined: Nov 2001
Location: Utrecht
Age: 24
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the result of the ring Attachment: holswe2_complete.txt (13393 bytes, 28 views)
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25-03-2003, 23:14 |
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Brian Balgobind
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Location: Utrecht
Age: 24
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Thanks for the race sweden 2, good and smooth organising in the end.
I want to say sorry in name of the team of the mess we made in the first 2 corners. At rouen i started warping badly, and i just read my provider went gaga just on that moment 
At ring Frits is deeply sorry for making the mess and is willing to accept any punishment.
If nothing changes in the results the Dutch team hopes the deadline can be extended by one week. thks in advance.
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Racing Doc
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26-03-2003, 00:34 |
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the_end
Registered
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Grebbestad, Sweden
Age: 28
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We have a few protests to file for the races this evening. We're not upset by the behaviour of the Dutch team or anything since they behaved like perfect gentlemen during the evenings races, but there are a few incidents that needs to be cleared out.
Rouen:
The first one for Rouen is a matter of the warping incident involving the dutch driver Brian Balgobind at turn one which killed Smaze (Swe) and damaged Westerlunds (Swe) car damaged enough for it to be very slow throughout the rest of the race. Karl Arlt's (Swe) car also got damaged in this incident.
Nurburgring:
At the start there were several incidents. The most noticable one is when Frits Hermes (Hol) takes out Lars Mossberg (Swe) breaking for turn one. In the confusion that follows, the, again, badly warping Honda of Brian Balgobind (Hol) overtakes S?derquist (Swe) into T1, causing further chaos when he hits St?hl from behind (effectivly taking him out of the race) wich leads to Bert Knops (Hol) hitting S?derquists (Swe) Ferrari from behind, taking him out with Marcel v.d. List (Hol). These incidents eliminates three Sweden2 drivers (Lotus, Brabham and Ferrari) at T1 which we feel is a bit to much.
Also we have a few objections to some of the overtaking during the run into t1 at Nurburgring. Robin Verdegaal (Hol) overtakes Smaze (Swe) in the pitlane (thus changing lanes, well actually using a noexistant lane, which is not allowed as we read the new rules).
Well that concludes an eventful evening. If our protests does not affect the final result we'd like to congratulate Holland to their victory. 
Regards,
Sweden2 team management,
Magnus&Smaze
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www.cloudbase.se | Twiggy Racing Team
#gpl-spot mIRCmafia Capo Bastone
"Few people understand the psychology of dealing with a highway traffic cop. Your normal speeder will panic and immediately pull over to the side. This is wrong. It arouses contempt in the cop-heart. Make the bastard chase you. He will follow."
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26-03-2003, 00:58 |
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smaze
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Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Sweden
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Clips of T1 here,
Rouen
Nurburgring
Full server replays available here,
Rouen
Nurburgring
Graphical race reports,
Rouen
Nurburgring
Regards,
Sweden2 team management,
Magnus&Smaze
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26-03-2003, 01:18 |
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Brian Balgobind
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Joined: Nov 2001
Location: Utrecht
Age: 24
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i watched my own replay and yes perhaps my car warped a bit. But the acident with the red/white brabham (i was wundering why a honda was doing there) was hardly to be avoided. i was already on low speed as you can see i braked very early. But i couldn't avoid the brabham who was going from low to high and sudddenly back. i just couldn't anticipate on it anymore , only i waited till all mayhem was over to enter the track again. when suddenly the honda or brabham put a 360 in front of me and flipped me over.... sorry again for my warping, but this was not avoidable without warping i think
For the rouen thing. i'm deeply sorry yes. Everything looked fine. But then a big warp came i tried to slow a bit down and stay at the outside. It didn't work too bad. I also elimated Michiel and almost Bert there. I'm sorry about that. my provider sucked first time in 2 years
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Last edited by Brian Balgobind on 26-03-2003 at 01:35.
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26-03-2003, 01:37 |
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Brian Balgobind
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Joined: Nov 2001
Location: Utrecht
Age: 24
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my replay of that part  Attachment: t1replayfrombb.zip (309871 bytes, 8 views)
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26-03-2003, 02:00 |
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Marcel vd List
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Joined: Jan 2002
Location: Delfgauw Holland
Age: 38
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Quote:
when suddenly the honda or brabham put a 360 in front of me and flipped me over
Brian, this brab did not see you cause I was still hanging around in the fence, somewhere between you and this brab.
Remember that during the race only 1 driver behind is shown.
And besides the 3 Swedish, also 3 Dutchies (Including me  ) were taken out in T1
grz Marcel
Last edited by Marcel vd List on 26-03-2003 at 02:24.
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26-03-2003, 11:09 |
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Richie
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2001
Location: Poland
Age: 27
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I have one question to Nino and Judges:
It was told, that driving for team Sweden1 and Sweden2 same drivers is illegal?
But I see these drivers:
v.pahv
westerlund
were driving for Sweden1 and Sweden2, so what are the rules about it? If I am in mistake, forgive me.
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26-03-2003, 11:42 |
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smaze
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by Richie
v.pahv
westerlund
were driving for Sweden1 and Sweden2, so what are the rules about it? If I am in mistake, forgive me.
No, Pahv and Ygborn never raced for Sweden2, and Westerlund never raced for Sweden1.
In the Swe1 vs Swe2 match, Swe2 used the Finnish nationality. Later when Nino was about to replace FIN to SW2 in the race report, he messed up a bit.
I still have the original race reports here,
Kyalami & Rouen
/Smaze
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26-03-2003, 12:17 |
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smaze
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Balgobind
i watched my own replay and yes perhaps my car warped a bit. But the acident with the red/white brabham (i was wundering why a honda was doing there) was hardly to be avoided. i was already on low speed as you can see i braked very early. But i couldn't avoid the brabham who was going from low to high and sudddenly back. i just couldn't anticipate on it anymore
I think it would've been avoided, if you hadn't tried to overtake S?derquist (Ferrari) in T1. You had no overlap on him when the turn started, so I find it a bit odd that you even tried.
I watched your replay, and noticed that all other cars disappeared for about 5 seconds after the start. The fact that you decided to enter T1 with this kind of warping (once again) makes me sad.
Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Balgobind only i waited till all mayhem was over to enter the track again. when suddenly the honda or brabham put a 360 in front of me and flipped me over.... sorry again for my warping, but this was not avoidable without warping i think
Yep, re-entering the track after a big crash is always weird, with the 4+1 visibility. Due to this I don't think it's worth discussing what happened in T1 after 1:05 into the race.
/Smaze
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26-03-2003, 13:05 |
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Richie
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2001
Location: Poland
Age: 27
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Quote:
Originally posted by smaze
No, Pahv and Ygborn never raced for Sweden2, and Westerlund never raced for Sweden1.
/Smaze
thank you, I just got such message from one guy, so I wanted to make it clear.
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26-03-2003, 14:01 |
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Nino Arndt
DGPLS Administrator
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Denmark
Age: 31
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Richie
I have one question to Nino and Judges:
It was told, that driving for team Sweden1 and Sweden2 same drivers is illegal?
But I see these drivers:
v.pahv
westerlund
were driving for Sweden1 and Sweden2, so what are the rules about it? If I am in mistake, forgive me.
It was me messing up  when Converting FIN til SWE2, sorry.
Sweden1 and Sweden2 Did not use the same drivers.
Regarding HOL vs SWE2 Complaints....the judges and I will have a look on the accidients.
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26-03-2003, 20:02 |
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Malc
Registered
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: at home
Age: 31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Balgobind
my replay of that part
Brian, I'd like to see your replay from the T1 crash at Rouen please, if you saved it.
Thanks, Malc.
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26-03-2003, 20:37 |
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Brian Balgobind
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Joined: Nov 2001
Location: Utrecht
Age: 24
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I watched the ring replay from the server..weird that i was not warping there. Still i was not overtaking the ferrari. i never intended that. i was watching the mayhem in front of me
here my rouen replay. That' was my fault, i warped big time, on the replay of the server i got alien speed, while on mine i even pulled off the throttle. (weird again, cause again i don't dissapear from the server) Attachment: t1rouenbb.zip (164574 bytes, 6 views)
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Last edited by Brian Balgobind on 26-03-2003 at 20:44.
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26-03-2003, 20:53 |
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Paul Jackson
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2001
Location: Largo, Florida
Age: 41
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Rouen
1. Brian B will need to provide some evidence in his defence, as the current evidence points a big finger at him (or his ISP)
2. Even if a judgement takes place to reward points to Sweden for this (allegedly) warp-induced infraction, who decides how many points and on what basis? Sucking our thumbs? Enough to get the victory to Sweden? Not in my opinion. (13 points? from where?)This is a very difficult position to judge from when everything that we decide upon, has no precident.
Nurburgring
1. Frits Hermes will also need to give some explanatory evidence in his defence... If there was warp, we need to see a better rendition of it or the case is relatively (not completely) simple.
2. (refer to the predicament described in Rouen point # 2.)
3. Anything which happened after Frits' incident does not fall on other people's shoulders in my opinion, otherwise you could extrapolate and pontificate about events that happened in the 5th lap arguing that this certain person would never have been in that position in the first place if the Frits/T1 incident had NOT occurred (which it should not). So in my opinion, every other complaint not relating to Frits in the T1 incident, falls on Frits' shoulders, I'm afraid. Brian's incident in T1 was not his fault in the least. He had already pulled with 2 wheels off on to the grass, and still the spinning cars collided into him. There was not much else that he could do dafely except pull his phone cable out of the wall.
4.
Quote:
Also we have a few objections to some of the overtaking during the run into t1 at Nurburgring. Robin Verdegaal (Hol) overtakes Smaze (Swe) in the pitlane (thus changing lanes, well actually using a noexistant lane, which is not allowed as we read the new rules).
If this had resulted in an incident, I may spend more than 0.5 seconds examining it, but I feel this is a wasted complaint. He did a good move in the normal run of an online race, because HAD everything been fine up ahead and had the race proceeded without incident, he would not have been slowed potentially by a slower car with its associated risks involved, bearing in mind it was a Pro-Long, 5-lap Nurby race.
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26-03-2003, 20:56 |
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Paul Jackson
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2001
Location: Largo, Florida
Age: 41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Balgobind
I watched the ring replay from the server..weird that i was not warping there. Still i was not overtaking the ferrari. i never intended that. i was watching the mayhem in front of me
here my rouen replay. That' was my fault, i warped big time, on the replay of the server i got alien speed, while on mine i even pulled off the throttle. (weird again, cause again i don't dissapear from the server)
I see this now... 
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26-03-2003, 21:36 |
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Malc
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Location: at home
Age: 31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Balgobind
here my rouen replay. That' was my fault, i warped big time, on the replay of the server i got alien speed, while on mine i even pulled off the throttle. (weird again, cause again i don't dissapear from the server)
I watched the server replay and couldn't believe your reactions would be so slow that you didn't brake in time to avoid the Cooper.
I agree that your very bad warp caused the incident, but having seen your replay I can't honestly say you could have done anything to avoid the other cars. You could just have easily been rearended if you'd slowed down, and you kept your line at approximately the right speed. Consequently, for the Rouen incident I don't feel I can reccomend a warning since you were as much a victim as any other driver, and both teams were indiscriminately affected.
However, if the warp and resulting incident was bad enough to need something other than 'racing incident', even placing Brian in last place would only change the points to 27(Hol) to 22(Swe1) by my reckoning & so it wouldn't change the result of the race, since the Netherlands would still win.
My opinion on the Rouen T1 incident then:
Racing incident, the results remain as they are now.
I'll put my opinion on the other incidents shortly, please bear in mind that only the appropriate judges should post their OPINIONS on any of these incidents, although any FACTS are more than welcome from the two teams involved.
Malc.
Last edited by Malc on 26-03-2003 at 21:44.
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26-03-2003, 21:51 |
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Paul Jackson
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Location: Largo, Florida
Age: 41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Malc
Consequently, for the Rouen incident I don't feel I can reccomend a warning since you were as much a victim as any other driver, and both teams were indiscriminately affected.
However, if the warp and resulting incident was bad enough to need something other than 'racing incident', even placing Brian in last place would only change the points to 27(Hol) to 22(Swe1) by my reckoning & so it wouldn't change the result of the race, since the Netherlands would still win.
My opinion on the Rouen T1 incident then:
Racing incident, the results remain as they are now.
Malc.
Agreed. I still think we need something more on the Frits T1 Nurby matter...
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26-03-2003, 22:05 |
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Malc
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Location: at home
Age: 31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Jackson
Anything which happened after Frits' incident does not fall on other people's shoulders in my opinion, otherwise you could extrapolate and pontificate about events that happened in the 5th lap arguing that this certain person would never have been in that position in the first place if the Frits/T1 incident had NOT occurred (which it should not). So in my opinion, every other complaint not relating to Frits in the T1 incident, falls on Frits' shoulders, I'm afraid.
I pretty much agree with this, I can't see anything in the Nurby replays that I would class as a 'mistake' on Brian's part either, nor do I have a problem with the pilane pass, it looks safe enough.
But Frits made the very common and inexcusable mistake of braking too late on cold tyres at the start of a race. We've all done this at some point, and although Mossberg should have left more room, Frits would have hit the Swedish Lotus anyway, so it's a moot point.
My opinion on the Nurburgring T1 incident then:
Frits to blame, I reccomend we disqualify Frits from the Nurby result.
By my reckoning, this would put the scores for Nurburgring at 26(Swe1) to 23(Hol) meaning each team would win a race each, although The Netherlands would still be ahead on points.
Malc.
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26-03-2003, 22:23 |
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Fritsie
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
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First of all, I have to say that the Swedish people were very friendly to me after I messed up big time  , no flaming at all.
About my T1 start incident, that start crash was my first start crash ever in a league race that I have caused. I'm very sorry about this. I simply missed my braking point and I know you simply can't afford to miss it when your entering T1 in L1. I don't know why I missed the braking point to be honest, I certainly didn't want to overtake any one, I just wanted to have a safe start. But as you can see, my legs weren't doing what my brain was thinking. So, whatever the punishment may be, please only punish me and not the others. Because it was my fault not the team its fault. I'm very sorry for the people who I bumped out the race, especially the Swedish racers.
I Hope it makes any sense,
Frits Hermes.
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26-03-2003, 23:34 |
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Malc
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Location: at home
Age: 31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fritsie
Because it was my fault not the team its fault.
I understand entirely, but a lap 1 Turn 1 incident is exactly the sort of thing that we all know is bad because we've all done it.
At the end of the day no one deliberately does these things, that's why they are called Accidents ;-)
But nevertheless when accidents happen someone is to blame and in this case it's pretty clear cut.
The only way to penalise you without penalising your team here would be to give a 1-race ban, but:
a) you're not exactly a hooligan, so there wouldn't be any point in 'teaching you a lesson', and
b) I'm a member of the UK team, (only the reserve though ;-)) so if I reccomended a ban it could potentially be to my benefit.
Of course Paul, Nino and any other Judges could reccomend it, but not me.
I hope you understand my position.
Malc.
Last edited by Malc on 26-03-2003 at 23:38.
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27-03-2003, 00:04 |
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Paul Jackson
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2001
Location: Largo, Florida
Age: 41
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Giving the DQ and adjusting the points doesn't compromise your team's position at all Fritsie - they still win the event.
I would consider this plus a mandatory start-at-the-back-of-the-grid for you in the next race... still thinking though - this is a GAME and not for money, although a certain amount of National pride comes into play here, but still it has to be a fun thing.................................aaargh!!!!!!!!!!! why did you do it?? I hate this position.
(jury is still out...)
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27-03-2003, 08:17 |
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PetterEdin
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Joined: Aug 2001
Location: Sweden
Age: 32
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I don't think it's in the rules, but maybe a re-run of the Ring-race would be a fair option?
/ PE
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